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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Aug 27, 2011 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

While likely not the best version of this famous sandwich. It is quite special. Both other ones contain spacey scary rocking vibes that I can't get enough of and are unlike anything else I've ever heard. I actually enjoy the girl shouting "Alright!" as the other one starts. Gotta love her enthusiasm, and a girl who loves TOO, awesome! I like the matrix and its the version on my ipod. The MAMU is pretty solid too, I think bob's voice sounds nice.

THe NFA > GDTRFB > NFA is also great.

Just a suggestion for you 71 or other one nuts.

Matrix
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-12-01.partial-set2-matrix.vernon.83164.flac16

SBD
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-12-01.sbd-set2.miller.32304.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 27, 2011 8:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Upon listening,

This is a mighty fine performance. The "Drums" is so 1971, add to that the intro into "The Other One", the quartet + Keith, nice... evolutionary

Thanks for bringing forth this most positive vibe from 1971.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 27, 2011 2:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Chicago Auditorium Theatre August 23rd, 1971

Cryptical > Drums > The Other One > Me & My Uncle > The Other One > Cryptical

Road Trips Vol. 1 No. 3


This performance holds a special place in my "aural memory" for several reasons; this being my first show and by the time the second set had rolled around, Pigpen (who had a case of beer on the stage and was pounding them) had fallen backwards off of his keyboard bench leaving only the quartet on stage to perform this stunning hearty sandwich.

Good stuff indeed!

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 27, 2011 7:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Kochman, you didnt attend your first Grateful Dead show until 1994. Why lie about attending a show in 1971?

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Aug 27, 2011 2:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

thanks for the suggestion.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Aug 27, 2011 9:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

wow a thread that talks to itself, (or it seems)grovey

seems 71 is the rage now, 10/31 71 pappa oo ma ma & gt TOO!

good nite irene!

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Aug 27, 2011 10:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

haha, i was responding to darkstarz suggestion of summer 71 road trips

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 27, 2011 7:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

“On September 17, Pigpen went into Novato General Hospital with a perforated ulcer and hepatitis. Ironically, his drinking had already slackened considerably, after he had reached the point of sweats, faintness, and incipient DTs. He had lost an enormous amount of weight.”

Dave McNally

You saw him pound a case of beer 3 weeks before he was hospitalized? So if your are right, then i wonder what Pigpen was pounding before his drinking had slackened considerably.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Aug 27, 2011 9:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Dark.starz went into more detail in an earlier post:
"I saw Pig only once, 08/24/71 at the Auditorium Theater Chicago. He was positioned on stage left, a rather large white sandwich board on the stage in front of his keyboard read "Music is Live and Well".
He had a case of beer on the stage floor behind him and was pounding them down. I recall somewhere @ the second set, Pig fell backwards off his keyboard bench and wasn't seen for an hour or so as the quartet plowed into a unique trifecta of That's it for the Other One > The Other One > Me and My Uncle > The Other One > That's it for the Other One, reprise."
http://www.archive.org/post/346348/auditorium-theater-08-24-71

But you know, if Pigpen did fall off his bench, he must have gotten back on pretty quickly, as he plays organ in the Other One (both verses), as well as singing & playing Empty Pages later in the set....

Dark.starz has also said, "I taped my first show in Chicago at the Auditorium Theatre on August 24th 1971.
There's a bit of mis-information circulating regarding this date, performance and the actual recording which i can clarify."
http://www.archive.org/post/380630/denver-coliseum-11-21-73

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2011-08-28 04:19:47

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Aug 28, 2011 8:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 8/23/71 UPDATE

I was wrong about Empty Pages being played on 8/23/71. Though it shows up at the end of the audience tape, it was not played on that date.

Charlie Miller has posted on etree (and his setlist is confirmed by David Lemieux from the vault copy): "I have the complete 8/23/71 sbd and I can confirm that this is the setlist."

Set 1:
d1t01 - Big Railroad Blues
d1t02 - Playing In The Band
d1t03 - Mr. Charlie
d1t04 - Sugaree
d1t05 - El Paso
d1t06 - Next Time You See Me
d1t07 - Bertha
d1t08 - Me And Bobby McGee
d1t09 - Cumberland Blues
d1t10 - Big Boss Man
d1t11 - Loser
d1t12 - The Promised Land
d2t01 - China Cat Sunflower ->
d2t02 - I Know You Rider
d2t03 - Casey Jones

Set 2:
d2t04 - Truckin'
d2t05 - Bird Song
d2t06 - Cryptical Envelopment ->
d2t07 - Drums ->
d2t08 - The Other One ->
d2t09 - Me And My Uncle ->
d2t10 - The Other One ->
d2t11 - Cryptical Envelopment ->
d2t12 - Wharf Rat
d3t01 - Tuning
d3t02 - Deal
d3t03 - Brokedown Palace
d3t04 - Sugar Magnolia
d3t05 - Not Fade Away ->
d3t06 - Going Down The Road Feeling Bad ->
d3t07 - Not Fade Away ->
d3t08 - Johnny B. Goode

Our lousy 8/23/71 AUD is missing some chunks of the show - I should have been able to spot right away that Empty Pages was from a different source, as it sounds markedly better than the rest of the tape.
Indeed, Empty Pages seems to come from the following night, 8/24. Miller suggests that it's from the 24th, and it doesn't match the Empty Pages from 8/26.

Part of 8/24 was released on DP35, including the SBD of Empty Pages. (As far as I know the full 8/24 setlist hasn't been posted anywhere?) It's a nagging thought that more of the 8/24 audience tape must have survived at one point, and just one song from it got tagged onto our lesser-quality 8/23 source.
Jeff Tiedrich once claimed on the deadlists forum that the Empty Pages was taken from one of Latvala's tapes: "It was Latvala's filler on the first version of 1/26/69 to circulate...the Chicago aud source of Empty Pages, labelled '8/23/71'."
So my conjecture is: that there was a full audience tape of 8/24/71 that was traded in the '70s (when Latvala probably got it), but it more or less stopped circulating later on (hence 'disappeared') because people thought it was the same tape as our 8/23 AUD - since that show was then also labeled as 8/24!
[This kind of confusion was sadly common for early-'70s tapes. There were many fragments of shows that came out mislabeled or as tape-filler and left people wondering where the complete tape was....in some cases, we're still wondering. (1970 is a huge culprit in this regard.) The 8/26/71 Gaelic Park show was even mislabeled "Chicago 8/24/71 FM-SBD", leading many to think there had been an FM broadcast of 8/24/71!]

Anyway, this leaves us room to hope that someday, some old-time trader will go digging through tapes and realize that he has an overlooked, unheard AUD tape from 1971...

On another note - it's bewildering to me how many people taped (or claimed to tape) this show. According to the Taping Compendium, our tape was made by Stephen Wade. (He's the one saying "I don't want to sit in my seat" at the start of Cumberland Blues.) There used to be confusion over which night the tape came from, but for a long time now it's been settled as 8/23.
In the Deadbase review, Thomas Flannigan also says that he taped the show. (Though he unfortunately says nothing about the tape, or the show.)
On etree, an "skrauss" says he also taped the show, but due to a recording malfunction, only captured 35 minutes.
On dead.net, Rick Stenquist says he ALSO taped the show, claiming that his is the only extant tape. His comment sounds bogus to me.

All of which shows us either how many AUD tapes were made back in the day that were never traded or circulated, or how many liars there are out there....

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Aug 28, 2011 10:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 8/23/71 UPDATE

"All of which shows us either how many AUD tapes were made back in the day that were never traded or circulated, or how many liars there are out there...."

Methinks it's the latter. Give it up, Kochman. You did not see the Dead in 1971, much less tape them. You weren't even alive. There's no shame in having seen your first show in 1994. What exactly is it that drives you to spin this web of lies?

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 29, 2011 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 8/23/71 UPDATE

LIA,

Yeah, that's the humorous back story of this "little movie" the number of folks who claimed to have taped the 08/23/71 show.

For me personally, it's funny enough to see the idiots around this board spew their speculation.

stay tuned!


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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 28, 2011 7:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

LIA,

Good observation, I certainly appreciate your analytical approach. Allow me to begin by adding that Pig was absent from the stage this fine evening during Bird Song, China Cat Sunflower, I Know You Rider, Set Break, Cryptical, Drums, appears briefly during Other One, off stage again, Me & My Uncle, the Other One jam, the closing Cryptical segment and Wharf Rat.

There is a tremendous amount of controversy surrounding the two Chicago Auditorium Theatre shows in August of 1971, the 23rd and the 24th. I mean let’s face it, until the discovery of the houseboat tapes in 2005, even the Grateful Dead didn’t exactly know what transpired these two fine evenings in August of 1971.


http://www.dead.net/show/august-23-1971

http://www.setlists.net/?show_id=0725

http://db.etree.org/shn/9759

http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=718

Stay tuned!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Aug 28, 2011 10:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

So Pig was absent from the stage during set break and drums? Wow, Rob.. what a keen observation! Your insight into the mysteries of the GD never cease to amaze me!

You're such a absolute nincompoop. LiA just absolutely owned you on your bullshit and you just ignore it and continue to kiss his ass. You are so pathetic. Hang it up already.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 28, 2011 3:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

These are quotes that i lifted from your blog also suggest that Pig never passed out drunk on stage:

Rock Scully: “He was already an alcoholic when I met him. I mean, he drank all the time. But you never had a feeling he was abusing it because he could hold so much… He had a way of being able to drink a lot and not show it.”

Garcia also observed, “He was never too drunk to perform… He drank all the time – first thing in the morning, all day long. But you never saw him out of it…he’d just get more mellow… He was no stumbling drunk.”

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 28, 2011 9:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Garcia's definition of not "out of it" and others might be a tad different.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd66-01-xx.sbd.hanno-uli.18846.sbeok.shnf

True, he doesn't fall off his chair, but it sounds as if some folks want to shove him off ... Fascinating listen!

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Poster: Skobud Date: Aug 28, 2011 8:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Everyone here seems to have missed your point but it is exactly what I have been stating all along. Koch is very detail oriented, but he ain't perfect. If you read some of his BS(like I can tell you have), you will see. Most of the time you will see his comments swirl around the reviews he reads here, then tries to throw in some clever sprinkle of BS. He is good, but he aint that good. You found the most glaring pile of crap, which is, that he taped 8/24/71 when he was 14 years old. Plus, he made that shit up about Pig dissappearing off stage for an hour. You nailed it.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 27, 2011 8:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Who exactly is Dave McNally?

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 27, 2011 8:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Publicist for the GD for 20 years. Author of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Long-Strange-Trip-History-Grateful/dp/0767911857

Hello?

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 27, 2011 9:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Dave, or Dennis?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 28, 2011 3:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Sorry you are correct, it is Dennis. I think Dave McNally was a baseball player. My brain crossed wires while i was typing. Regardless the quote is real and from Dennis and does not seem to support your memory of the event. I was hoping your could shed more light on the subject.

This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2011-08-28 10:35:23

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Aug 28, 2011 6:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 1971-12-01 - TOO > MAMU > TOO

Well, in a nice way, Dennis McNally wasn’t there and frankly the "quotes" that you refer to are extremely general in nature. I believe that McNally was hired by the Dead in 1984.

The reason that alcoholics succumb to cirrhosis is because of addiction, an inability to stop consuming alcohol.